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Gaming Discussions => Final Fantasy => Final Fantasy XII => Topic started by: FF12GrandMaster on May 04, 2009, 04:01:42 AM

Title: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed Part I
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 04, 2009, 04:01:42 AM
One of the biggest headaches in the game is the Zodiac Spear if you have opened one of the 4 forbidden chests. Many people have spent countless hours trying to get the Zodiac Spear from the chest in the Henne Mines which is a 1/1,000 chance. Some people have been lucky and fluked one early whilst others have spent more time that they cared the to think about chasing that elusive spear. But now things are different. Let me explain.During one day I got 6 Zodiac Spears from the chest in the Henne Mines. Yes, you read that correctly.....SIX!!! Was I lucky? No. Did I use Armax or some other cheating device? No. So how did I do it? Well, I used the PS2's pre-programmed list of random numbers against itself. I am now going to show you how to get a Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines but there are some conditions to this which must be met first. So here goes.....a step by step guide to the Zodiac Spear.

1. First thing I have to say is that this was done on a Phat PS2 (PAL Version) Series 39003. You will have to test this out and see if your machine will also do it. It probably will.

2. You MUST have one character who does NOT have the Brawler Licence activated. If you don't have a character without Brawler then you aren't going to be able to do it. The idea in this is that you have to hit yourself to move the Random Number Generator (RNG) and you could be hitting
yourself over 80 times. On my file Vaan is level 99 but has a Grand Armour. He does over 3000 damage with his bare hands. Three or four hits and he is history.

3. You need to know how to use the Immobilise Glitch. If you don't then I suggest you look it up in the FAQs and learn pretty fast if you want a Zodiac Spear (or 99).

4. Teleport to the Henne Mines making sure you have Chronos Tears and a Nihopalaoa. I guess you could use magick but it's best not to do too many things that move the RNG along. Equip two characters with armour but no weapon. Helm can be equipped, it's up to you. It makes no difference to my character whether they have a Circlet on or not. Equip one character with the Nihopalaoa and equip the character WITHOUT Brawler with the Diamond Armlet. Make sure the character with the Diamond Armlet has 5000+ HP. If not, cast bubble on them now. Cast float on both characters and turn off all gambits. Now put Game Speed on SLOWEST.

5. Put character with Nihopalaoa into reserves and just have your main character in the party. Save your game and then TURN OFF YOUR PS2!! This is imperative. A soft reset will NOT work and in trying to save time you will just waste time. Now reboot your game.

6. Head from the Gate Crystal into the Ore Separation and towards the Phase 2 Dig but before you enter the Phase 2 Dig you MUST hit yourself twice. If you forget to do this then you are just going to have to start again. If you don't hit yourself twice then it is unlikely you will ever see the Zodiac Spear Chest. Having done this, enter the Phase 2 Dig.

7. Now bring out the other character and get them to use a Chronos Tear on themselves which will put them under stop. Now with the flee button held in head down the passage. You will see 3 Abysteels in front of you and you may take some damage in this spot only. Run directly at the Abysteels and don't try to dodge them. I find they use Gnaw (instant attack) more if you try to
dodge them. When you get to the intersection where there are 2 more Abysteels use the Immobilise Giltch to clear all of them away. Keep going through the area towards the ZS Chest using the Glitch to clear all enemies in your way. As you reach the brickwork you are at the point where you may have to renew the Chronos Tear on the character by the entrance. You will
have to renew it at least once.

8. You arrive at the Zodiac Spear Chest Location. It may not be there but there is a reasonable chance that it will. Doing it this way I reckon it appears a lot more than 10% of the time. Shame you're not guaranteed the Spear, eh? Now put your other character into the reserves. Do NOT forget to do this. Turn the game speed back to FASTEST and give your character just one gambit. SELF: ATTACK.

9. Now you have to hope that you have the right pattern for the random numbers. What you are looking for are Combinations. The one of most interest to you is a 5 Hit Combo but that will be later. For now what you DON'T want is a 2 hit combo at all. If you get a 2 Hit Combo you may as well reset without even opening the chest because you ain't getting a Spear. It depends on whether you took any damage from the Abysteels as to when you get your first combo but I am going to assume you took none. There are 3 possibilities and this is what you need to be looking for:

a) A 3 hit combo after about 21 hits. This will then be followed by a 4 hit combo after 29 more hits. Finally, after another 28 hits you will get a 5 hit combo.

b) A 4 hit combo after about 54 hits. This will be followed by a 5 hit combo after a further 28 hits.

c) A 5 hit combo after 82-84 hits

If you get any other pattern then forget it. You won't get the Spear. One more thing. During the 5 hit combo MAKE SURE YOU TURN YOUR GAMBITS OFF!!!  If you don't do this and your character hits themself after the 5 hit combo then your Spear is gone.

10. If you didn't get a), b) or c) then turn your PS2 off and start again.

11. If you got any of a), b) or c) then open the chest and get your ZODIAC SPEAR. If you have the Diamond Armlet on I will GUARANTEE you it will be there.

12. Get the hell outta there and save your game.

13. Rinse and repeat as many times as you want for as many Zodiac Spears as you want.

 :D :D :D

Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: YiazmatSlayer on May 04, 2009, 01:41:08 PM
Could it possibly work with the clicks again?
Just like you did with the Ribbon in Cerobi  :)
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 04, 2009, 09:02:50 PM
Could it possibly work with the clicks again?
Just like you did with the Ribbon in Cerobi  :)

It would only work if the ZS chest was the only one. There is only one click per allocation of chests whether there is one or 10. The ZS chest isn't the only chest in that area.

Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: YiazmatSlayer on May 04, 2009, 09:03:51 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot the Ribbon chest is the only one in that area
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Ultima on May 04, 2009, 09:21:01 PM
How many people do you reckon will abuse this?
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 05, 2009, 05:13:10 AM
How many people do you reckon will abuse this?

At least one ;D
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: YiazmatSlayer on May 05, 2009, 01:27:47 PM
So much for the world record of ZS being 17...that's gonna go WAAAAAY out of the window now.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Ultima on May 05, 2009, 09:03:05 PM
So much for the world record of ZS being 17...that's gonna go WAAAAAY out of the window now.

It was only a matter of time I guess. A load of people will gather 99 Spears before rules are put in place on Perfecter games that this is illegal.

A never-ending cycle for the world of RPGs.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 06, 2009, 09:39:58 PM
Important find from Flak76e. For those who have the Brawler Licence just equip a Shield and a Cameo Belt and you will do zero damage. I checked this with a level 99 Vaan and it works!
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: x8m8x3k3t on May 06, 2009, 10:22:52 PM
It was only a matter of time I guess. A load of people will gather 99 Spears before rules are put in place on Perfecter games that this is illegal.
There won't be any rules against it because you are not abusing any glitches. You are just using RNG for your advance.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Ultima on May 07, 2009, 03:06:13 AM
There won't be any rules against it because you are not abusing any glitches. You are just using RNG for your advance.

Well the people who spent hours and hours getting Z-Spears earlier will be pretty peeved.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Hal on May 07, 2009, 01:43:41 PM
Hi there,
I tried this method two times and got another Hit Times with the same Combo pattern. Is it possible for the posted Times of Hits to be highest values?

By my two Chests (two Zodiac Spears) was it that way:
By the first Spear i got 74 Hits -> 5 Hit combo. By the second 16 Hits -> 3 Hit combo followed by the posted way with 4 Hit combo after 29 Hits and 5 Hit combo after 28 Hits.

I?m sorry if my english is not the best, i only handle is good but not perfectly, at least not yet.
Another Question: Can i take these Informations for translation in german?
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 07, 2009, 05:43:08 PM
It is possible for the first hit to be at a different time because of things that may happen to the RNG like if you get attacked. Also, you may have a different series PS2 to me and that might affect what happens too.

If you wish to translate into German then that is fine with me. Many people do things like that but usually give credit to the person who wrote the original. :)
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Hal on May 07, 2009, 06:00:43 PM
Of course i note that?s you the one who find out these things. That?s an point of honor for gamers, so i will do it like that.
By the way: I thank you for this way, too. Above all, how can you figuerd out this system?

Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: parabol on May 07, 2009, 06:08:48 PM
Phew, just got my first ZS with this method. I really wasn't doubting this trick but now i finally confirmed it to myself. After seven tries, the chest spawned. I had the a) pattern.

Here's a pic, bad quality thanks to my cellphone - http://koti.mbnet.fi/crow_cs/zspear.jpg
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Zodiac Killer 99 on May 07, 2009, 06:12:13 PM
Thanks for the method Rob. Made my farming a LOT quicker.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: shim on May 07, 2009, 07:09:34 PM
hey GM everything works for me just fine,i got items form Cerobi,i got ZE but i'm having problems with ZS because i can't even spawn the chest.i have Brawler so i'm using Cameo+ZE and Vaan and Balthier are both lv.99.in like 50 tries i had the chest 2 or 3 times only...any ideas?and like I said,it worked perfectly in Cerobi and Barheim
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Zodiac Killer 99 on May 07, 2009, 07:30:01 PM
That's basically just bad luck I think. Working on the 10% spawn rate, in 50 attempts you should only have gotten a couple more than you have, but it could be something wrong because Rob said the method seems to spawn the chest more often. What PS2 type are you using?
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: shim on May 07, 2009, 09:28:55 PM
the slim one.but i hope it was only bad luck with numbers
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Zodiac Killer 99 on May 08, 2009, 11:09:12 PM
I am a little curious Rob, as you said you had now managed to do this with 8 patterns, and 3 are posted, but how do you do the other 5? Thanks for all of the work you are putting into this
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 09, 2009, 01:44:07 AM
I am a little curious Rob, as you said you had now managed to do this with 8 patterns, and 3 are posted, but how do you do the other 5? Thanks for all of the work you are putting into this

The results of the other patterns have now been published and I have written a guide which has been uploaded on the site. You will find it here:

Zodiac Spear - Mini Guide (http://www.fftogether.com/guides/425c6807d83e74457243e2eb68aa53e4.txt)

Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Da_Cloud on May 09, 2009, 10:52:23 PM
hey GM everything works for me just fine,i got items form Cerobi,i got ZE but i'm having problems with ZS because i can't even spawn the chest.i have Brawler so i'm using Cameo+ZE and Vaan and Balthier are both lv.99.in like 50 tries i had the chest 2 or 3 times only...any ideas?and like I said,it worked perfectly in Cerobi and Barheim
I've had the same problem, couldn't spawn a single chest in 25 tries. Then I started wondering if the slime line might have a slightly different pattern, so I started hitting myself a different amount of time before entering the phase 2 dig. It seems that you must hit yourself 3 times (instead of 2 times) if you have a slime line Ps2 ;)

So shim it might help if you hit yourself 3 times before entering the dig. And if you do test this out please tell if it worked or not ;)
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 10, 2009, 07:40:33 PM
Nice one, Bram. This is the kind of co-operation that makes me glad to be a part of this site and it sets us apart from some of the others. :D
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: zero369 on May 11, 2009, 11:46:37 AM
 ??? ??? ???
why the topic in the gamefaqs is closed?

anyway i have upload something about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w__tFF7IAEQ
music is missing again >:( >:( :-\
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: billygoten on May 12, 2009, 02:20:34 AM
I'm really interested in this. It's gotten me back to my file, which was set up in Henne farming Brave Suits and the ZS. Between yesterday and today, I've gotten up to 4 Brave Suits and 4 ZSes, even though I really only wanted 3 of each before FF12GM posted the manipulations. Now I get to go back to Cerobi, a zone that I hate pretty much only for bad luck with chests, and extract some revenge.

Anyway, I've been having some trouble getting the chest to spawn as well (Phat, SCPH39001). I haven't documented anything, but in almost 30 tries hitting myself twice, the chest has spawned twice. It spawned twice out of around 6 times with 0 hits, although I messed up and only got it once. I'm inclined to say the latter at least is just luck, but the chest isn't showing up drastically more than 10% when I hit myself twice. I haven't tried changing the number of hits enough to see if anything else seems to work better, but without a lot more tries, I'd be iffy to really suggest anything anyway. Maybe it's just numbers.

FFGM: What's the logic behind hitting yourself twice? Doesn't crossing the line from the save point into the second room shift down the patterns? So, how do you that two hits puts it into a better position for the spawn - is it just what you've seen in your experience (much greater than mine), or does two hits generally put you into a better position for some or a bunch of the patterns?
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Mike65707 on May 12, 2009, 02:35:15 AM
I think I'll point out something although GM can point out if I'm wrong or not.  Moving from area to area moves the RNG so when you are hitting yourself twice and moving two areas he's actually moving it 4 times (2 areas, 2 hits).

I'm trying to find this spawning number for my model PS2 I'm using now as well. Nearly 3 hours and nothing has spawned yet, but I did notice that if I added how many hits I had taken, and the areas I moved, it added up to one of the patterns.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: billygoten on May 12, 2009, 03:57:45 AM
Hm... I thought zoning shifted down patterns and hitting yourself shifted down values in the pattern, like how Curaga doesn't equate to hitting yourself a certain number of times, it shifts you into another pattern altogether.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Mike65707 on May 12, 2009, 04:12:07 AM
Actually Curaga does both.  It changes the pattern AND moves it over like hitting yourself.

Source is from GM's guide about it, a few posts down.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: billygoten on May 12, 2009, 07:02:51 AM
Okay, neat. But that's not really what I was talking about. I was under the impression that zoning just shifted into another pattern. Does it move you down as well?

Anyway, I was asking how hitting yourself twice improves the spawn rate given that you're already one room away, you've started with a random pattern, and you're going to change it into another pattern when you zone.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Mike65707 on May 12, 2009, 07:18:55 AM
Leaving/entering an area does the same thing as Curaga. Moves it forward and changes the pattern. (Or so it seems to me)

When he hits himself he moves the RNG to the next spot.  That number gives the chest a certain chance to spawn based on what pattern you are in.  Two hits seems to be the spawning number for GM's Z spear chest. 

So far my best number for hitting myself is 1 which spawns a chest every time enter the room with patterns 2, 8, and 10. (except a few times when I got hit in the tunnels and received a different pattern)

(Feel free to correct me FF12GrandMaster, as most of this is just from what I have found today with my PS2 model)
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: zero369 on May 12, 2009, 01:18:41 PM
i think the chest in henne mines have better chances to appear if you enter with float in that area
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: billygoten on May 12, 2009, 08:04:47 PM
Leaving/entering an area does the same thing as Curaga. Moves it forward and changes the pattern. (Or so it seems to me)

Okay, I had it wrong then. I thought it just shifted patterns.

When he hits himself he moves the RNG to the next spot.  That number gives the chest a certain chance to spawn based on what pattern you are in.

Right, I know that. Bear with me... I'm trying to communicate a question and apparently I'm doing a bad job at it.

Two hits seems to be the spawning number for GM's Z spear chest.

But there are 11 patterns and at that point, you've done absolutely nothing to determine what pattern you're in. Sooooo... my question was... why two hits? Does two hits put the RNG in a good position for a majority of those patterns? Is the chest spawn not already determined since you're within one room of it, or does it actually wait until you enter the room and then hold onto that value until the room is reset? Also, why is the number of hits different between PS2s but the patterns themselves don't seem to be that different?

So far my best number for hitting myself is 1 which spawns a chest every time enter the room with patterns 2, 8, and 10. (except a few times when I got hit in the tunnels and received a different pattern)

Going for the ZS? You can't get hit except by yourself until you enter the Phase 2 Dig. At that point, it shouldn't affect the spawn if you get hit again.

Like I said before, I just find this interesting and it seems the more I think about it, the more questions I come up with :).
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Da_Cloud on May 12, 2009, 08:21:05 PM
Well then lets try to answer these questions shall we ;D

Leaving/entering an area does the same thing as Curaga. Moves it forward and changes the pattern. (Or so it seems to me)

Okay, I had it wrong then. I thought it just shifted patterns.
To make it clear any action that has a random factor will move the RNG forward, though the amount of steps the RNG will go upwards isn't always the same. Entering a room for example will move the RNG a big time (for every single chest in the room alone the RNG will move forward).


Two hits seems to be the spawning number for GM's Z spear chest.

But there are 11 patterns and at that point, you've done absolutely nothing to determine what pattern you're in. Sooooo... my question was... why two hits? Does two hits put the RNG in a good position for a majority of those patterns? Is the chest spawn not already determined since you're within one room of it, or does it actually wait until you enter the room and then hold onto that value until the room is reset?
When entering a room the RNG determs whether the chest spawns or not. If positive the chest will spawn and remain there until you zone out of the room.

Also remember we started of from a cold start (clear RNG), from that we go to an empty room which shouldn't make the RNG move. So now we want to enter the Phase 2 Dig where the chest is, but the RNG still hasn't moved from when we started. If we now enter the room the RNG will generate numbers to determ if the chest is there. If you didn't hit yourself the RNG will likely give the chest a positive to spawn. But if we hit ourself twice before entering we have moved the RNG to a position where the chance of spawning the chest are improved.

Its true that we still don't know in which pattern we are that's why the chest doesn't have a 100% spawning change even when using this method. All we do is improve the change of spawning it by moving the RNG to a better position.


Also, why is the number of hits different between PS2s but the patterns themselves don't seem to be that different?
I haven't got a clue. All we know is that the RNG on one model can be different from the RNG on another model.

Its just that for some strange reason I can only spawn the chest by hitting myself 3 times, but for the rest all patterns seems to be exactly the same.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: Mike65707 on May 12, 2009, 10:08:16 PM
Two hits seems to be the spawning number for GM's Z spear chest.

But there are 11 patterns and at that point, you've done absolutely nothing to determine what pattern you're in. Sooooo... my question was... why two hits? Does two hits put the RNG in a good position for a majority of those patterns? Is the chest spawn not already determined since you're within one room of it, or does it actually wait until you enter the room and then hold onto that value until the room is reset? Also, why is the number of hits different between PS2s but the patterns themselves don't seem to be that different?

That's right.  You don't affect the pattern your in but you DO affect what line of the pattern your in.  I think of it like this.  Each line of the pattern (I call it line but it's more likely a number, each hit moves it once, which is why we get these patterns) has a certain chance to spawn a chest.

Example for my idea: I moved one area, hit myself once, then moved one area.  So that means it's in the 3rd spot in the randomly chosen pattern that the room gave you.  For my system I'm only guessing my chances are like this:

Pattern 1: 5%
Pattern 2: 90%
Pattern 3: 5%
Pattern 4: 5%
Pattern 5: 5%
Pattern 6: 5%
Pattern 7: 5%
Pattern 8: 90%
Pattern 9: 5%
Pattern 10: 90%
Pattern 11: 5%

So the same number that is called to tell the game you are in the "3rd spot" in the pattern references the number with the chances for each pattern.  In my experience with my PS2 these chances are finite.  If I get a chest to spawn and am in pattern 10 without being hit (read my answer to that question below ;))) then, so far, I have ALWAYS gotten a chest to spawn.

Note: I didn't use 100% and 0% in the example because I'm not positive that's how it is yet.  Maybe all the percentages add up to 100%?  Maybe they don't do this at all?  I've only done a days worth of work so far (but 10 spears to show for so far :D) so I will continuing researching my hypothesis.

So far my best number for hitting myself is 1 which spawns a chest every time enter the room with patterns 2, 8, and 10. (except a few times when I got hit in the tunnels and received a different pattern)

Going for the ZS? You can't get hit except by yourself until you enter the Phase 2 Dig. At that point, it shouldn't affect the spawn if you get hit again.

I mean I always get a chest when I have a pattern -at the chest- and haven't been hit by Abysteels, which means I have the same pattern I had when I entered the room.  When I do get hit I'm no longer in the same pattern so I get a pattern other than 2, 8, and 10 but so far I'm assuming that I was in one of those patterns as the chest spawned.  It's kinda confusing to explain but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. :P

Leaving/entering an area does the same thing as Curaga. Moves it forward and changes the pattern. (Or so it seems to me)

Okay, I had it wrong then. I thought it just shifted patterns.

I'll also retract that statement.  You are right it only shifts patterns if there are no chests in the area. (Thanks to Da_Cloud for pointing that out :P)
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: billygoten on May 12, 2009, 10:54:00 PM
Thanks for the responses, guys.

To make it clear any action that has a random factor will move the RNG forward, though the amount of steps the RNG will go upwards isn't always the same. Entering a room for example will move the RNG a big time (for every single chest in the room alone the RNG will move forward).

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Cool.

Quote
When entering a room the RNG determs whether the chest spawns or not. If positive the chest will spawn and remain there until you zone out of the room.

You mean until the zone is reset, right? Because once the chest is in a room, it's still there until you get it or reset the zone. Well, even if it's not "there" by virtue of the fact that you're not actually in the room, the game still remembers it's supposed to be there.

Quote
All we do is improve the change of spawning it by moving the RNG to a better position.

Okay, so the location two hits into multiple patterns is overall a better chance than leaving the location at position 0, ao although it might not necessarily improve the location in the RNG, it does for more patterns than it doesn't producing an overall improvement. That's what I thought when I first asked.

Quote
Its just that for some strange reason I can only spawn the chest by hitting myself 3 times, but for the rest all patterns seems to be exactly the same.

Okay. I don't know of anyone who's been doing this who has said that they have the same model as I do, but the patterns seem to be a little different for me. Not by much, but the hits in between some of the combos are often different, sometimes by only a hit or two (which FFGM mentioned) but up to 10 hits or so, although that could be a result of attacks like Leech and Gnaw moving the location by more than 1 spot, or perhaps interference by Immobilize, since I've been using it over Chronos Tears. Other gaps are the same, like the gaps in between 4-hits and 5-hits are 28 as far as I can tell.

And my chances still haven't gotten significantly better with 0, 1, 2, or 3 hits as far as I can tell, although I need more experimenting with some of them. My best chances so far are actually 0, but nothing that I can peg down as better than the "standard" 10%.

I'm also finding it quite impossible to get the DA chest in Tchita to spawn at all. I tried from all three save points in Tchita and it has spawned only once, off a soft reset that produced a pattern I thought I recognized but ended up not swapping into a good when when I used Curaga. I'm over 50 tries by now, and I don't even want it! I was helping someone else.

Quote from: Mike65707
I mean I always get a chest when I have a pattern -at the chest- and haven't been hit by Abysteels, which means I have the same pattern I had when I entered the room.

Okay, so every time you have pattern 10, which you find out once you get to the chest, and you didn't get hit by Abysteels, there is a chest there? The question I have is with the "if I haven't been hit by Abysteels" part. You can't get hit by Abysteels until you're in the room. The chest is already there or isn't there. The Abysteels can't affect it at that point, right?

Also, I understand the concept of the movement of the values in the RNG, both down the "line" and into another "line", or pattern. I have understood that as soon as FFGM posted about it. I just don't know the nature of the movement.

Quote
When I do get hit I'm no longer in the same pattern so I get a pattern other than 2, 8, and 10 but so far I'm assuming that I was in one of those patterns as the chest spawned.  It's kinda confusing to explain but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

:/ Kinda. I was under the impression that getting hit doesn't shift patterns, but shifts down patterns. Like hitting yourself. That might not be the case with Leech and maybe even Gnaw, but I'm assuming that regular attacks should just move you down the pattern, not change it into another one.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: FF12GrandMaster on May 12, 2009, 11:04:25 PM
I just want to make something clear. It has been determined (not just by me) that all the chests for an area are set with just one random number. Don't ask me how it's done with just one random number, just accept that it is. In my testing I did hitting in Cerobi after entering the area. Bmxer31000 did the hitting in his tests before entering the area and the hit numbers to our first combos always varied by just one hit each time. From that we drew the conclusion that the game uses just one number to determine the location for all chests in that particular zone.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: billygoten on May 12, 2009, 11:08:14 PM
Oh, another question I thought of today. Don't know if it works, but it might be worth looking into.

Let's say we're in pattern 21 hits => 3 hit combo => 29 hits => 4 hit combo => 28 hits => 5 hit combo. Each hit is moving down the line in that pattern. When you land on the value right before the three hit combo, it's a value such that when you go to do your attack and the attack references that value, it throws you into a 3 hit combo. From my understanding, each hit of that combo also moves the value down once per hit, which makes sense, why wouldn't it?

I'm wondering about comboing over those values though. Has anyone checked to see if any of those values might produce a 5-hit combo? You wouldn't know it if they did because you're already in a combo - I would assume the game would ignore that. It's also not a huge likelihood and it may be difficult to do something that would have you skip the value that produces the combo so that you'd be able to check the values you normally combo through. It might even be possible that a solution to one of the two (last time I checked) patterns that don't produce anything is one of the values that you combo over. Not likely, just something I thought of.
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed
Post by: flak76e on May 21, 2009, 10:57:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC8N3i2xIag
Title: Re: Getting the Zodiac Spear from the Henne Mines Chest - Guaranteed Part I
Post by: pprincess on May 21, 2009, 06:27:55 PM
Moderator Edit: This topic has some crucial information and some very long posts. I'd like to keep it readable, so this Part I intact at this point and start Part II for continued discussion.