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Gaming Discussions => Final Fantasy => Final Fantasy XII => Topic started by: Chaos on August 02, 2010, 02:16:17 PM

Title: The RNG Method [FFXII]
Post by: Chaos on August 02, 2010, 02:16:17 PM
This topic will explain everything that is currently known about the RNG: the basics and how it works on treasure contents, steals and some other things.

Basics

Final Fantasy XII uses a random number generator (RNG) known as the Mersenne Twister. It generates random numbers from a huge interval of [0, 2^32-1] and almost every random action that occurs in the game is connected to these random numbers. The following are spreadsheets of the first 20000 / 60000 random numbers the PS2 uses:

bmxer31's spreadsheet: http://www.2shared.com/document/S8rXWkZR/RNG_Extended_List.html
nathany33's spreadsheet: http://www.2shared.com/file/Tq5pARB2/ff12_good_RNG_chart.html

A Google Spreadsheet for the TZA version of the game: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-QyphfndDVeXwFOD3sDUPKdGYPtjMrBb3298Jd7lnss/edit?usp=sharing

Here's a link to an interactive webpage that can help you with RNG manipulation:

egli's webpage: http://markegli.com/ff12/

The first spreadsheet has two columns. 20000 random numbers in the first column and the corresponding Cure values in the second one. The formula for Cure is:

=INT((20+(MOD($A750;20*12,5))/100)*((LV+MAG)*MAG/256+2)*1,5)

You should change the formula to match your character's level and Magick Power. When changing formulae, position yourself in the first row (B1), change it and then double-click on the lower right corner of the B1 cell to apply the change to the whole column (demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOanlfmkbEY&feature=related)).

Note: The *1,5 at the end of the formula are for the Serenity license. Make sure you're at full health when casting Cure. If you do not have the Serenity license you must delete the *1,5 at the end.

The second spreadsheet might be easier to use as it already comes with explanations and how-to's. It also has the advantage of having more random numbers (60000).

The RNG works so that it takes one random number for every random action that happens in the game (excluding drops; they use some other way of randomness for some reason). The spell Cure uses only a single random number, that's why it is a great way to determine your position in the RNG. If you're using the first spreadsheet go Edit > Find, click on Options and search by columns (you must be in the B column), look for values and tick that "Match entire cell content" box. Enter your first Cure value and remember the following one. Keep pressing "next" until you find your position. The second spreadsheet has a more user-friendly way of finding things. If you need to move quickly through the RNG, keep punching yourself. A self-hit without a weapon equipped will always use 10 random numbers. Don't forget to unequip your shield or you may block sometimes (alternatively you can use a Shield and equip the Cameo Belt, use this method if you have the Brawler license). Also be careful not to miss your destination by combo-ing.


Treasure Chests

Let's take a look at how random numbers affect the treasure contents. I'll use the Brave Suit chest as an example. It has a 25% spawn rate. It has an 80% chance to contain Gil and 20% chance to contain an item. There are two sets of items, one in case you don't have the Diamond Armlet equipped and one in case you do. If the former is the case, you have a 50% chance to obtain Item 1 (Knot of Rust) and a 50% to obtain Item 2 (Scathe Mote). If you do have the Diamond Armlet equipped, it's 90% for Item 1 (Knot of Rust) and 10% chance for Item 2 (Brave Suit). You can find detailed information about treasure contents on ff12maps.com (http://www.ff12maps.com/).

Your chances to obtain a Brave Suit don't look so good. 0.25*0.2*0.1=0.005. That means you have a mere 0.5% of getting it. Exploiting the RNG will change this. Treasure spawns are determined when entering the zones. A set amount of random numbers is used when changing zones. This is the order of their functions:

1. Weather Changes
2. Random mob spawns
3. Treasure Chests
4. Traps
5. Rest

The Phase 2 Dig in Henne Mines doesn't have weather changes nor random monsters. The first number that's used when zoning into the area is for Brave Suit. Zodiac Spear is the 4th number. This means if you want to spawn the Brave Suit chest, the next random number MOD 100 (divide it 100 and look at the remainder) must be less than 25, or 00-24. Determine your position in the RNG and keep casting Cure until you're in front of a number than ends in <25 (MOD 100 will always represent the last two digits of a number). When done, enter the area. The chest will have spawned, make your way towards it, eliminating all enemies because their actions also consume random numbers.

By opening chests you use two random numbers. The first one is used for a Gil check. In the case of the Brave Suit chest, you'll get Gil if the next number ends in less than 80 and you'll get an item if it's 80-99. In case you get Gil, the second number is used to determine the amount. If you got an item, it will be Item 1 for a random number that ends in 00-49 and Item 2 for a random number that ends in 50-99 if you don't wear the Diamond Armlet. If you wear the Diamond Armlet, it's 00-89 for Item 1 and 90-99 for Item 2. To get the Brave Suit the next number must be 80-99 and the one after that 90-99.


Zodiac Spear

Similar as the above. When entering the zone, make sure the fourth number is less than 10. Enter the zone, kill all enemies you encounter (or use the Immoblize glitch) and reach the chest. Reach a position in the RNG, so that the next two random numbers are both 90 or higher (because it's 10% for item and 10% for that item to be Zodiac Spear).


Stealing / Poaching

This is similar to manipulating treasure contents. The steal mechanics work like this:

No Thief's Cuffs:
   - A random number is used for rare steal. If it ends in 00-02 you get the rare item, and the process ends here. If not, it continues...
   - A random number is used for uncommon steal. If it ends in 00-09 you get the uncommon item and the process ends. Otherwise, it continues...
   - A random number is used for common steal. If it ends in 00-54 you get the common item and process ends, otherwise the steal misses.

Thief's Cuffs:
   - A random number is used for rare steal. If it ends in 00-05 you get the item.
   - A random number is used for uncommon steal. If it ends in 00-29 you get the item.
   - A random number is used for common steal. If it ends in 00-79 you get the item.
This means that each steal attempt with the Thief's Cuffs will consume three random numbers because you may steal multiple items.


Poaching uses 1 or 2 numbers depending on whether or not the poach succeeds. The first number determines the success rate. If it fails, the process ends. If it succeeds, a second number is used to give you an item. 00-94 for common poach and 95-99 for rare poach.

For easy stealing, charge your steal before you engage your target. Nothing must move the RNG until you steal from the target. As for poaching, it will only work if you can Immobilze / Sleep / Disable / Stop your target.


Spawning Lv.99 Red Chocobo

The Chocobo spawns only in Haulo Green in Ozmone Plains. You must kill all 6 chocobos in that area, zone through 2 other areas and come back. There's a 1 out of 256 chance that a Lv99 Red Chocobo will replace any of the chocobos you've killed. Each time a normal Chocobo spawns two random numbers will be used, one for the spawn itself and one for its status (it may spawn asleep). If the Lv99 Red Chocobo spawns, only one random number is used. It will spawn if the next random number is less than 2^24. 2^24 = 16777216. In case you wonder why this happens, 2^24 out of 2^32 equals 1 out of 256. Here's a video of this method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2fyEQzTEn4


Credits

A big thanks to whoever started this whole discovery.
mkotha - for finding out that the Mersenne Twister is used as the random number generator and for figuring out its seed
bmxer31 - for translating mkotha's work into English and making the first spreadsheet
nathany33 - for information about the Lv99 Red Chocobo and making another great spreadsheet
FF12GrandMaster's - for being the first to develop a method for rare items in treasure chests
billygoten, pprincess, Gramps, flak76e and everyone else who has helped out
egli - for making an interactive webpage for RNG manipulation
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Frozen Josh on August 03, 2010, 05:10:48 AM
When you input your LVL and MAG stats into the equation and apply it to all the RNG values, you will get your 'cure list', which will be the amount that cure will heal at that position in the RNG. Make sure you're already at full health with Serenity license if using the formula above.

Cast cure a couple times, getting for example 2346, 2387, 2310, and then use Ctrl+F to find whereabouts in the cure list the amounts you got for those cures are. So for our example, those three values of 2346, 2387 and then 2310 might fall consecutively at spots 586-587-588. That would mean you are now at position 588 in the RNG and the next random action will use the number at spot 589.

btw for most PS2 models, starting from a cold start the RNG will be at around the 500-600 mark. The exact range (of 11) of starting points depends on your PS2 model.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: pprincess on August 03, 2010, 08:52:07 AM
wowwww, great job on a brief write up that doesn't eschew the math behind the RNG. This is the best explanation I've seen on how the game and the PS 2 work to generate all the things we see in the game. I'm really proud that such a great group of people worked on this and cracked the whole thing a piece at a time.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: flak76e on August 03, 2010, 04:04:45 PM
wowwww, great job on a brief write up that doesn't eschew the math behind the RNG. This is the best explanation I've seen on how the game and the PS 2 work to generate all the things we see in the game. I'm really proud that such a great group of people worked on this and cracked the whole thing a piece at a time.

Yes the Japanese players. We just translate it to english ^^
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Frozen Josh on August 04, 2010, 07:50:31 AM
=INT((20+(MOD($A750;20*12,5))/100)*((LV+MAG)*MAG/256+2)*1,5)

what does INT mean?
=INT(x) is a function in excel which rounds down the number x (in this case the entire formula) to the nearest integer (e.g. 5.8 -> 5 etc)

Quote
what does MOD mean?
MOD is a function for the remainder after having divided by another number (e.g. 28 MOD 5 = 3, or for Excel =MOD(28,5) -> 3)

Quote
$A750 what does this mean?
$A750 means cell A750, the $ sign before the A means it stays as that column when you drag the function to other cells, rather than changing the input cell.

Quote
MAG/256+2 (shall i first add 2 to 256 and then MAG/258 or (MAG/256) +2 ?
Its (MAG/256) + 2, though because of order of operations brackets aren't necessary.

Quote
on which page in piggybacks book is this formula?
If you're looking for formulas and game mechanics, rather than using piggyback check here:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/459841-final-fantasy-xii/faqs/45900

Quote
do i have to enter my base-mag value or the mag value with equipment?
Enter MAG value with equipment, thats what gets used in calculations (equips would be pretty pointless if it wasnt...)

Quote
i trief a lot but i dont know how tu use it with openoffice always when i insert the formula, it just fills one box with ##NAME?#
If you're getting #NAME etc, either your formula is incorrect, or you're referencing a cell with invalid data. Make sure the "A750" bit is referencing the cell with the RNG value you're using.

Quote
when should i start the cure list method?(licenses, which items equipped or which my i not equip?
It really doesn't matter when you use RNG manipulation. Though early on in the game there simply isn't really anything it would be worth your time for.
If you don't have the Serenity license, get rid of the *1.5
If you have the brawler license, equip a shield (no weap) and Cameo Belt to be able to hit yourself without damaging yourself. Other stuff really doesn't matter.

Quote
arent there other healvlues with lower/higher level differences
Not quite sure what you mean. Amount you heal from Cure depends on your MAG and LVL stats, and has a random factor of RND(1~1.125). We're not really interested in the actual number, just whereabouts in that 1-1.125 we landed so we know what RNG value we're up to. Increasing the MAG and LVL stats will increase the range that the 1-1.125 covers, and remove potential overlaps, though it shouldn't matter really when you do 2-3 cures and have a rough idea where you should be.


If you're not really familiar with the game mechanics or the excel/maths involved, I wouldn't spend too much effort trying to use all of this. Its certainly interesting for perfectionist files, and for those who've already spent hundreds of hours on the game and enjoy exploring all the technical details involved in it, but for casual gamers it really is far from necessary. If you just want a couple Zodiac Spears or something, don't get too obsessed with this.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: wee187 on August 09, 2010, 08:10:16 AM
Holy Chocobo, I can't believe I didn't notice this topic till now. Wow, this is amazing, thank you all you RNG'ers who do this amazing work! :o
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: JohnRayJr on August 12, 2010, 12:47:27 AM
Can we collect everything that is known about chest-numbering for manipulating the spawn-checks when you zone in?

I know the Brave Suit is #1 and the ZS is #4 in the Hennes Mines. I know the Zodiac Escutcheon is #3 in Barheim Passage. It would be nice to know the number for the Dragon Mail chest so those could be doubled up.

I've seen numbering for one zone in Cerobi, but not the zone with the Fomalhaut/Ribbon/Venetian shield. Or, for that matter, the Magepower Shishak / Golden Skullcap. Although I think that information has been posted somewhere, I just don't recall where. Anyone have these details?
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Infinity on August 21, 2010, 08:46:28 AM
Hey Everyone,

I have a cure spreadsheet I've been working on. It has some cool features that will make getting rare items easier. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LN872RO6

* I've made conditional-formatting formulas
* added some columns to help set up chests
* the ability to count-down to your targeted cure value (where you want to enter a room or open a chest)
* and a neat tool that can move you to your position in the cure list, top of the spreadsheet or even your targeted cure location.

It was originally based upon bmxer31's spreadsheet. I also added some extra tabs to the workbook that came from nathany33's spreadsheet. Hopefully it can be a one-stop spreadsheet.   ;D
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: zero369 on August 23, 2010, 04:13:20 AM
nice macros Infinity

is it possiple to put that macros into a hyperlink cell?

i will post my links here also

excel 2003 and Openoffice
http://www.mediafire.com/?ngrm3zzb8x03gl3

excel 2007
http://www.mediafire.com/?idivgo766no3xz0
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Infinity on August 23, 2010, 10:50:22 PM
zero369,
Hey that is a pretty cool version you made too. I think that putting the Jump-tool functionality into a single cell would be difficult. The Jump-tool is actually a VBA User Form. There are ways of adding Menu items, but that can get more complicated for the user to enable. I find the User-Form method is pretty handy because it is enabled to run in parallel w/ the rest of the spreadsheet. That way, you can use it no matter where your cursor is in the worksheet.  :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: yoshi1017 on November 02, 2010, 08:15:31 PM
Sorry guys but I can't understand this at all, any chance I can get some help? I'm playing IZJS english patch.

For example, let's say I'm trying to get a Brave Suit in Cerobi Steppe/Fredrik River and using Infinity's spreadsheet. I'm using a level 44 Ashe, att power 12 and magic power 48. Casting 3 cures I get 426, 406, and 395. According to the spreadsheet that puts me at A754. What exactly am I supposed to do after that?

I did watch this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe9BR14rWro
and checked out the spreadsheets in the link, but they don't look anything like they do in the video. I'm a little lost.

edit: forgot to say that she does NOT have serenity license.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on November 02, 2010, 08:57:18 PM
First you need to spawn that chest. Get near it, make sure everything around you is dead. Look at the first column of the spreadsheet. Then note the last two digits of the numbers. You need the next number's last two digits to be higher than 80, and the number that comes after that need to end in 95 or higher. Just keep casting Cure until you're in such a position. Then equip the Diamond Armlet and open the chest.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Sirkrozz on November 17, 2010, 04:49:23 PM
Hello everyone; i registered just now in order to tell my experience with both my PS2 79001 and the RNG Method.
I just didn't want to end up following numbers in order to make good stuff appear; started with FF12GM's RNG method and accuratedly was able to spawn 3 Ribbons and several other stuff at Cerobi, which seem reasonably enough and potentially effective 90% of the time.

But then, when tried to follow up the same on Henne for the ZS Chest, i've rolled on the dices for several days with no results.
I started this game in 2006 and left it on Feb-07 due to personal issues, to start it again recently (same 3-year-and-a-bunch file).
 This is my first round and i want this file to be as complete as possible since i'll start my 2nd round on IZJS.

At first, i downloaded all the .xls in order to get to know the moves on this subject (though it's not hard to follow up, at first it's quite a mess).

Both the 2 listed here and the one made by Zero take a huge time on Excel to refresh, and it always ends up hangin my PC (and when the cells are disabled as the author prompted to, when modified again always delivers a "N/A" cell, when i entered correctly all the numbers).

I tried Split's, which besides user-friendly is pretty easy to follow up and in my opinion (being both a RPG veteran and a math numbskull) it should be used as reference for all average FFXII gamers.

On the matter he has listed, though, he shows where his PS2 starts from a cold boot.
In EVERY case i started followin' it, it seems SPCH-79001 starts always BELOW (and WAY below) the chart he indicates to position at in order to get the ZS Chest to spawn.
I have no problems on finding my place at the RNG chart; however, when i position on a MOD < 10 spot, where the chest ought to be spawning, it just simply does not. Moving from separation ore to the Phase 2 Dig makes my RNG to advance by about 15 spaces, and that's the riddle i cannot figure out yet (always checking last 2 digits end on a MOD<10).

I'd really appreciate any help here, since no matter how much i'd be reading the explanations over in time, all the time, i cannot neither to make my PS2 start near the spot Split shows nor landing on a correct spot, since i yet need to know exactly how to trigger this.

Sorry if my English isn't accurate enough.
Thanks to everyone here that have put another reason to keep playing this game, "fantastick" back now and then.

Greetings from Argentina!
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on November 17, 2010, 06:17:25 PM
Personally, I use bmxer's spreadsheet. It's got everything I need and I have no loading problems with it.

Zodiac Spear is the fourth chest in the area, so you must focus on the fourth number. Here's how the chests get spawned:

Quote
The Phase 2 Dig in Henne Mines doesn't have weather changes nor random monsters. The first number that's used when zoning into the area is for Brave Suit. Zodiac Spear is the 4th number. This means if you want to spawn the Brave Suit chest, the next random number MOD 100 (divide it 100 and look at the remainder) must be less than 25, or 00-24. Determine your position in the RNG and keep casting Cure until you're in front of a number than ends in <25 (MOD 100 will always represent the last two digits of a number). When done, enter the area. The chest will have spawned, make your way towards it, eliminating all enemies because their actions also consume random numbers.

I'll give you an example. Hope it helps.

246982999   1658
418357212   1630
2016582332   1534
1655654879   1569
2531967718   1635
4273278111   1556
3833366304   1514
3336621627   1568
473846896   1582
2822736102   1549
2868527579   1532

You are aiming for the number in bold (ends in less than 10). Since the ZS chest is the 4th chest, the number must be four "places" away. That's why you position yourself at the 1534 Cure value and then enter the area. The chest will have spawned.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Sirkrozz on November 17, 2010, 11:06:00 PM
Alright, i get it now (i didn't understand exactly about Chest numbers on the prior topics (just by pure luck, so to speak, i managed to get 2 ZSs to be spawned and then managed the contents).

Thanks a lot man; this for sure clarifies the whole subject for me!
Greetings! n_n
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: pprincess on November 18, 2010, 12:50:53 AM
Welcome to FFT, and feel free to post more about your FF12/IZJS game.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Tidus on July 18, 2011, 08:53:49 PM
Can't understand it still =/.

The spread sheet i am using is this 1:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LN872RO6

I saw what somebody wrote on the topic i got the spreadsheet from but only understood part of it, here is what was written.

Quote
cells in pink are the cells you need to fill in yourself. Have one character at full HP cast cure on themself 3 times in a row, making sure only that character is active in the party. Enter those 3 cure values where it says cure 1, etc. other pink cells that must be filled in are that characters level and mag power, and whether or not the have serenity licensed. the spreadsheet will automatically tell you where those 3 cure values are found consecutively. Find that spot on the spreadsheet, then begin going down, looking at the numbers in the far left column. These are rather long numbers, but you only need to pay attention to the final two digits of these numbers. find a spot where the final two digits end above 80, followed immediately by a number where the final two digits end in 95 or above. you need to get to the line immediately before these two numbers. You can enter that line in target row column, and the spread sheet will tell you how far away you are. If for example you are 56 lines away, hit yourself UNARMED for 0 damage 5 times and cast cure 6 times. hitting yourself advances rng 10 lines, cure advances it one. When you are at the line before those 2 numbers, open the chest for your item.

The bit in bold is what i understand, can anyone simplify this much more, thanks.

Also in the values of that spreadsheet, this is what i entered:
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4544/unledpmr.png)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on July 18, 2011, 09:35:12 PM
Can you say what exactly it is you don't understand?
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Tidus on July 18, 2011, 10:09:41 PM
I think i have sussed it, i wasn't too show about what to do after entering the last cure but now i realize what to do and why it wasn't working, I THINK.


225503843   967
3285925040   943
148254087   964

The left is my RNG and the Right is what my cure just hit so now the following pattern will be this:

1544605017   932
1732575028   937
1235522268   932
742286006   927
3773939092   967
2633940226   1029
3309725665   1000
1112836606   973
535914326   959
2302599798   946
601148348   969

I'll now highlight what i think i have to do.
1st highlight = Start counting from there
2nd highlight = The RNG i need 1st.
3rd highlight = The RNG i need 2nd.
1st underline = The RNG i need to get to.

So hope you still follow me, starting from the 1st highlight, the 1st underline is say 20 lines away exactly, all i need to do is hit myself 2 times for the RNG to go +20 then i should be on the 1st highlight, this is now when i open the chest to get the item?

Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on July 18, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
To be honest, I've no idea what you've said.

Change level and Magick Power in the Excel file to match your character's level and Magick Power. Then cast Cure three times and find those values inside the spreadsheet. When you've done that, find two consecutive numbers with the last two digits both above 90. Cast Cure until you're exactly before those to numbers, then open the chest with the Diamond Armlet.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Tidus on July 18, 2011, 10:26:10 PM
I thought 1 of them had to be above 80 and 1 had to be above 95 and also do they have to be together, and when do i open the chest, before the 80 or after the 95.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on July 18, 2011, 10:30:46 PM
If you're playing IZJS, it has to be 80/95. Open the chest before the 80+.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Naz on July 26, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
Hmm, I followed your instructions but it doesn't seem to be working. I started at position 510. So I moved to the line 523 and went to the location of the chest : nothing. What did I do wrong ? :(

510 1254523757   1179   57
511 2598864288   1197   88
512 2487065396   1261   96
513 3980557252   1176   52
514 3927687062   1212   62
515 1023120037   1197   37
516 3353421697   1291   97
517 1424497133   1253   33
518 381918519           1186   19
519 2639543960   1299   60
520 2978297751   1176   51
521 2761685757   1179   57
522 1548391283   1195   83
523 1947546654   1266   54
524 3865450906   1267   6

edit : OH OK, it was the 4th position. It worked, thanks ! :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: pprincess on July 27, 2011, 06:48:47 AM
Yay! Another person learns the Cure sheet method!  :D We bless you and send you forth to spread the good news.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Naz on July 27, 2011, 12:01:55 PM
This method is amazingly efficient :D I got 3 Zodiac spears in 40 minutes \o/
Do you guys know the required number to spawn the ribbon chest in Cerobi ? Since this zone is weather influcend, the method differs from Henne Mine to calculate the position required, does it ? I guess once the chest has popped, I just have to move on line 960 again to get the two lasts digits over 90 ?
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: nate1232 on July 27, 2011, 05:01:21 PM
I personally don't think its worth the effort to force spawn the ribbon chest - its there 70% of the time for me. The zones are quick, and its quick to reset also. I think there was a thread where people had posted how to spawn specific chests, but I don't quite remember where
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Naz on July 27, 2011, 07:45:55 PM
Indeed, if the rate is 70%, I will try it the usual way. :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: nate1232 on July 27, 2011, 11:13:20 PM
I just checked it - its actually a 50% chance, but it seems like its there fairly often. You should check out ff12maps.com, it has all the chests and their gil rate, spawn rate etc. itll make finding the proper rng numbers to use a lot easier
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Naz on July 28, 2011, 09:05:37 AM
Thanks ! :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Zodiac Killer 99 on January 30, 2012, 06:12:27 PM
Hey guys, sorry to be a pain, I'm replaying ffxii now and I was intending to use these spreadsheets, but as you're probably aware, megaupload isn't available anymore; does anyone have a copy hosted elsewhere?
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on January 30, 2012, 06:50:21 PM
Try the new links.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Zodiac Killer 99 on January 30, 2012, 08:25:37 PM
Thanks chaos :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: palumatzu on March 04, 2012, 05:15:25 PM
I've been trying this, with Cure, Curaga, and Curaja, but my values aren't matching up. If i go weaponless with my Vaan, my values are too high; conversely, when I slap Tournesol on him, i get 9999 where i could be getting 10 000 or higher. Even if i dont get many 9999 at all, my values just arent matching. Oh, and the first RNG chart is outdated.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on March 04, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
You should never Cure for more than ~2200. Weapons don't matter, your Magick Power does. Did you update the formula correctly?

Regarding the first link, I've fixed it now. I guess they delete it after a while if there are not enough downloads.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: palumatzu on March 05, 2012, 02:12:04 AM
You should never Cure for more than ~2200. Weapons don't matter, your Magick Power does. Did you update the formula correctly?

Regarding the first link, I've fixed it now. I guess they delete it after a while if there are not enough downloads.

Well, i keep playing with the Green-Box values in 2nd chart, but it remains null. Some weapons add magic power, thus, some DO matter

EDIT: finally got the hang of looking for values, but doesn't change the fact that i cant get Zody spear's chest to spawn...

EDIT2: GRRAAAAH! I CANNOT GET THE CODY SPEAR TO SPAWN! I've tried the "4th Number" trick once, twice, thrice, but none of it works.

EDIT3: Oh, hey , i got it to spawn, lets see whELIXER?! WHAT DID I JUST SPEND THE LAST HOUR FOR!!?? Never mind, sorry for trolling T_T just gonna give up for now, this is impossible...
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on March 05, 2012, 02:02:41 PM
You're doing something seriously wrong... Perhaps re-read the tutorial?
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: palumatzu on March 06, 2012, 12:18:18 PM
i forgot to equip diamond amulet. =D
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Saurok on April 03, 2012, 07:20:45 PM
I need ur help. Start the RNG Method to get Diamond Armlet form Garden of Life Circle. Early game, 55 lvl but to the main topic.
My problems is i cant match any 3 cures in row in any sheet. The only diffrent i found is:

=INT((20+(MOD($A1;20*12,5))/100)*((55+75)*75/256+2)*1,5) - english

=ZAOKR.DO.CAŁK((20+(MOD($A1;20*12,5))/100)*((55+75)*75/256+2)*1,5) - polish

Thats a command translate, ( I rly don't know why ppl translate it ) It should not affect the numbers but since most ppl ( i assume) using english command, have no problems with that. I found that only reason to my issue. So. What i want is if someone could tell me what INT means so i could replace command with correct one. Since i'm preety bad in english ( as u can see) i'll appreciate a rly simply answer.

What means ZAOKR.DO.CAŁK? Cant translate it properly, so here explanation:
It means there wont be any number after "dot". Instead of 1234,45 we get 1234. But there's a rule if number is 5 or higher it gives 1234,5 = 1235 or 1234,6 = 1235.

I hope for anyone willing to help.

If there is much simpler explanation to my issue, means all my effort to write this posted wasted, i meet that with open arms.

Salute
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on April 03, 2012, 10:33:07 PM
INT stands for "integer". Simply put, an integer is a whole number (1, 2, 3...). Can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure that INT always rounds down a number (123.7 will be 123). At least that's what it does in C/C++.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Saurok on April 04, 2012, 03:22:06 PM
Quote
If there is much simpler explanation to my issue, means all my effort to write this posted wasted, i meet that with open arms.
TRUE
REWARD:
Tchita uplands:
Diamond Armlet
Armguard
Perseus Bow

Apparently it was not a problem with command. Cuz What i did.I uninstall old version of 2003 Pro. Download from microsoft main site a 2007 Home n Student. Wanted english version, but somehow i founded myself with polish again. I downloaded second link from first post n god  it worked!!

Chaos u got my greetings, or Thanks, or.. u know what i mean. :)

Salute

Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on April 04, 2012, 09:31:30 PM
You're welcome. I'm glad I could help. :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: kyzumi on April 06, 2012, 12:44:35 AM
Hi, I can't download the first file. Can you please upload it on another server? preferably Mediafire
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: gavvin on August 21, 2012, 02:41:26 AM
First of all, thank you for creating and sharing the list.

I downloaded the first link without any problems. After changing the formula and casting some cure spells in game, I can always find the values.

The thing is, I still only have column A and B, how do I get the values in the other columns, e.g. when to open a chest or when the Red choco will spawn?

Thanks
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on August 21, 2012, 11:48:52 AM
Columns A and B is all you need. If you're after the Zodiac Spear chests, you should look at the number four rows below before entering the area. It needs to end in 00-09 for the chest to spawn. If you're after some other chest you'll need to experiment a bit yourself, since no one has a list of the chest orders when entering an area.

When opening any chest, you need to look at the next two numbers. The first one determines whether you get Gil or an item. If it's an item, the next one determines which of two possible items you get. For the ZS both numbers need to end in 90-99. You should re-read my first post one more time, it's explained in more detail there. It also says how to spawn the Red Chocobo. Maybe you should check out the second link, too. Might be easier for spawning the Red Chocobo.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: gavvin on August 26, 2012, 03:19:30 PM
Thanks,

I´ve figured it out.
 :)

Now I´m trying to check how much zoning advances the RNG. Trying to get the Ensaguined Shiel in Balfonheim.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on August 26, 2012, 03:21:31 PM
IIRC it's the 10% chance. Just do it the ordinary way. Should be faster.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: gavvin on August 26, 2012, 03:43:41 PM
Yeah.

We have to zone 5 times until we reach the chest. Tried leaving 5 steps on the table, it didn´t work. Now I´m just soft reseting until I get it. Shouldn´t take long.

Next going to farm Shell Shields and loot to make the Tournesol.

Edit: Got the Ensanguined Shield. Only two more to go.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: yoshi1017 on July 02, 2013, 11:28:52 PM
Not really sure if anyone still reads this, but worth a try.

I fully understand how to use the RNG method and regularly do. I know that early on at low levels it won't work, or is inconsistent at best, but is the same true for very high level characters? I'm tackling Trial Mode in IZJS for the first time in order to play Weak Mode, and thought to go through it as quickly as possible I'd level everyone up to 99 for the HP. But now that I'm trying to use the RNG method to get a Trango Tower and farm megalixers and I'm getting any results when I enter my 3 consecutive cures. For the record, I'm doing this is areas that have absolutely no enemies, and removing all status buffs.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on July 02, 2013, 11:48:53 PM
The method works at any level. The only problem with low levels is that there might be more than one sequence of the values you get. Did you forget to adjust the formula?
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: yoshi1017 on July 03, 2013, 12:17:20 AM
No, not at all.
My first thought was that it was because of the room Trango Tower is in. I mean once you clear the Skulwyrms (?) and Magick Pot there are no other enemies to interfere. However it is technically considered South Abyssal so I thought maybe I had to completely clear all enemies there until they stopped respawning, which I wasn't in the mood for. Then it occured to me that with levels of 99 and magic stat 99 there might not be enough difference in the cure values to get any match, so I went outside the Pharos where you fight the boss and tried it but got no matches again. I'll try again in a few minutes and give exact cure values and levels.

Edit: So after trying to get the Trango Tower chest to spawn FOREVER, then having no luck with the RNG at all that day, prompting me to make this reply, it's completely working fine now. I have no idea why it wasn't before or what I was doing wrong. Thanks for the quick reply though! Back to getting the TT now.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: wee187 on July 03, 2013, 01:00:36 AM
Good to see people still reference this thread for the RNG method and find it useful. It's been a long time since there's been any discussions about it, haha.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Tuinktuink on July 13, 2013, 10:07:11 PM
Just want to say thanks about all the good work you guys did on the spreadsheet.
I couldn't hold the urge to play FF XII again after so many years. But you know, it's frustrating me when some chest didn't give me the item i want. Then i found this spreadsheet.

So really thanks to any of you who involved in the making of this spreadsheet.

Good work and i wish you all have a special place in Heaven.  :D
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: kungfumidget on March 16, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
Should probably add mkotha to the list of credits since he's the one who figured out the random number generator and the seed.

http://www.fftogether.com/forum/index.php?topic=1499.30
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on March 16, 2014, 11:05:14 PM
Done. :)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: egli on October 15, 2014, 10:33:42 AM
I find the Excel files a bit clunky to use, so I created my own interactive RNG cure list. It is faster, can generate unlimited random numbers, and I tried to make it pretty intuitive. Here’s a link to it in case anyone else had the same frustrations with the Excel files that I had.

Interactive RNG Cure List: http://markegli.com/ff12/ (http://markegli.com/ff12/)
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Da_Cloud on October 15, 2014, 09:35:53 PM
Looks pretty sweet. Finnally there's an easier way than the old excel sheet :D
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on October 18, 2014, 06:39:37 PM
Great site and great to see that people still care so much about this game. I've added the link to the first post.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Dosh on May 20, 2016, 12:26:04 PM
(Many years later)

Does crossing a line zone change the RNG?
I succeeded at stealing the Fireman (using the cure system), I prepared the RNG in the save crystal zone which is separated from the boss with a iron portal.
I don't succeed at stealing the rare item from Mimic Queen.. Applying the same process of manipulating the RNG. Is this because of the line zone?
Or could it be because of the Minimics? The light decreasing in the boss arena?!



Thank you to all of you for explaining all this, I love it. I just don't know all the details.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Da_Cloud on May 20, 2016, 02:22:24 PM
I don't know all the details either, been a while since we've done this and even back then I would hardly be able to guarantee things.

I could take a good educational guess though. As I would assume that crossing a zone line will move the RNG seed forward on the cure list. So I guess that's the issue in your scenario.
The light going out in the zone always seemed to go down in a predetermined interval so I doubt that one would move the RNG seed.

Maybe Chaos can remember a bit more about it though.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on May 20, 2016, 05:12:28 PM
Da_Cloud is pretty much right, except for the incorrect usage of the word "seed". The seed is just a number used to initialize the random sequence of numbers and this happens the moment you turn on your PS2.

Now back to your question. Crossing a zone line causes a number of things to be evaluated, some of which are random, thus consuming numbers from the random sequence (the one in the cure list). The events being evaluated are the weather (if it's a zone where the weather changes), the traps and the treasure chest (I may have forgotten something, but this is the gist of it). There was nothing to consume the numbers during the Firemane fight, so stealing the desired items was a pretty easy task.

Things seem to be different for the Mimic Queen. If there are any chests in that area, a number will be used for each of them to determine whether or not they spawn. It is also possible that something in the room consumes the numbers, like the boss itself or the adds it spawns. If any of the enemies in the zone manage to cast anything before you steal, you're screwed. However, if it's just one or two spells and it's the same scenario every time you try it, you might be able to steal by leaving a couple numbers (maybe 5-40 depending on what they cast?) of headroom. Most probably it's more hassle than what it's worth.

One more thing to add. Certain zones in the game consume numbers on god knows what. The RNG list keeps moving forward even though it seems that nothing is happening in the zone. Another important fact to keep in mind is that each tick of Regen will also consume a number, so don't use it if you're trying to exploit the RNG.

I hope this was helpful. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Dosh on May 21, 2016, 08:13:32 AM
Hello, thank you for both your answers!

I did a few more tries on Queen Mimic, but didn't work.
I tried elsewhere, I tried to steal the Rare Item from the mark "Rocktoise" with the cure system and it did work well. So, yes, it won't be possible to steal everywhere, according the capacity, or not, to prepare the RNG before.

So I thank you all again for showing us the way.
I already did the classic version at 100%, I love this game and I'm going to use that RNG manip to have some more fun :P
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on July 20, 2017, 05:54:11 PM
Updated the topic with a TZA spreadsheet.
Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: dracuify on July 22, 2017, 04:52:57 PM
Updated the topic with a TZA spreadsheet.

Hi, this might seem a stupid question but how do you interpret the interactive rng list for TZA? Ie. what do the percents mean, so i know when to stop casting cure for rare item.

Title: Re: The RNG Method
Post by: Chaos on July 23, 2017, 01:53:24 AM
All the explanations are in the first post. Open the second tab (RNG list) in the spreadsheet once you've entered your stats. Though I suggest you actually use Egli's website (he updated it for TZA) since you can't change anything in the spreadsheet without copying it first.